Apple iCal to-do sync
tyee77 says:
After reading some posts by those who wish for Outlook sync, I wanted to voice my interest in synchronizing Apple iCal's "to do's" with Rember the Milk. I believe there are plenty of Mac users out there who would agree. If you are one, please let it be known.
One potential solution could come from Spanning Sync (spanningsync.com) which is Mac software for synchronizing Google Calendar with Apple iCal. It is currently in public beta but is already enjoying THOUSANDS (not a typo; see their blog) of new users. If even a small majority of those people could use RTM/Apple iCal sync then this is serious stuff!
I read some posts on their website requesting third-party RTM sync to which they gave a positive response (depending on resources and customer interest and [take note] if Google provides their own COMPETING task manager). In my opinion, the vast majority of Spanning Sync users would JUMP at the possibility of RTM>Apple iCal synchronization!
I wouldn't mind at all if the RTM folks wanted to implement this but, as I read in the Outlook sync thread, they may not mind if a third-party produced a solution. Please let both RTM and Spanning Sync know if you're interested.
One potential solution could come from Spanning Sync (spanningsync.com) which is Mac software for synchronizing Google Calendar with Apple iCal. It is currently in public beta but is already enjoying THOUSANDS (not a typo; see their blog) of new users. If even a small majority of those people could use RTM/Apple iCal sync then this is serious stuff!
I read some posts on their website requesting third-party RTM sync to which they gave a positive response (depending on resources and customer interest and [take note] if Google provides their own COMPETING task manager). In my opinion, the vast majority of Spanning Sync users would JUMP at the possibility of RTM>Apple iCal synchronization!
I wouldn't mind at all if the RTM folks wanted to implement this but, as I read in the Outlook sync thread, they may not mind if a third-party produced a solution. Please let both RTM and Spanning Sync know if you're interested.
sutehi says:
I'd like to echo this request. My husband & I are looking for a way to sync our calendars (including ToDos) between 2 MacBooks, one desktop, a Black Berry, and a mobile phone. Spanning Sync handles calendar events gorgeously, but ToDos remain thorny.
I use RTM (managed through Google Calendar, and subscribed to through iCalendar) for my personal ToDos, but in order to use it for work, I would need to have proper syncing with iCalendar.
In my ideal world, there would also be tighter integration between the ToDos and calendars. For instance, the ability to attach a ToDo to a particular iCal calendar (rather than having them in a seperate, subscribed RMT calendar.)
I use RTM (managed through Google Calendar, and subscribed to through iCalendar) for my personal ToDos, but in order to use it for work, I would need to have proper syncing with iCalendar.
In my ideal world, there would also be tighter integration between the ToDos and calendars. For instance, the ability to attach a ToDo to a particular iCal calendar (rather than having them in a seperate, subscribed RMT calendar.)
sarahbanko says:
I want this too!
davebc says:
Another Mac user who would dig iCal sync. I can also help get the word out by writing it up at Ars Technica.
harryalverson says:
Aye aye, another RTM and Spanning Sync User voicing a need for this!
bradbane says:
I too would love this, especially since a lot of Mac programs already sync with iCal's todo list. I use Filemaker to keep track of everything for my business and it integrates out of the box with iCal. If it could sync with RTM that would be a killer app for me, and I'm sure plenty of others as well.
sofrankly says:
GCalDaemon does exactly what Spanning Sync does and much more and it is open source, free, and platform independent. Setup requires the command line though.
dcoops says:
ditto
aoberoi says:
i REALLY want to see this happen! If the Remember The Milk developers don't have the time and resources to commit to a project like this, I would love to get into trying to do it on my own using the API that is available. But, if this sort of this is in development, could you let the users know so that someone like me doesn't waste the time doing it (since my implementation would probably be buggier, not as clean, and more poorly integrated)? If there are no plans to do such a thing, then let us know too!
(closed account) says:
Me too..
joeq says:
agreed.
andreas.marnevall says:
Me too... :p
max.edmands says:
I would very much like to see this as well
(closed account) says:
Ditto
simon.knight says:
please! anyone know of ANY half way solution - I'd love to publish my OmniFocus todo list somewhere on the web to access remotely!
niksterg11 says:
ditto
kutlay says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1
rodrigofoca says:
That would be great!
houweb says:
+1
mrwulf says:
+1
danyul says:
yep! +1
elsey.jack says:
can has ical sync? kthnxbai
(closed account) says:
Gotta say...Love the LOLspeak. But I think you misspelled thx.
:-)
D
:-)
D
ipallete says:
count me on
cjdelrosario says:
Would be awesome.. +1
(closed account) says:
Count me in as a Pro subscriber if iCal to/from Rememberthemilk is supported.
tripful says:
Along with my recent vote for Symbian sync or app (or both), iCal sync would seal the deal for me to become a Pro subscriber. Let's get this up and running!
ro33y says:
+ 6
I'll buy Pro accounts for everyone at my office when you deliver this.
I'll buy Pro accounts for everyone at my office when you deliver this.
yozz says:
+1!!!!!!!!
wnknisely says:
Plus one for me too. And for my office as well.
sabbatical says:
i'm frankly surprised this doesnt exist yet!
lucac81 says:
+1
This is absolutely needed
Since the iphone is not able to manage todos I need RTM, but it has no sense that when I'm home using iCal I cannot edit or add new tasks.
This is absolutely needed
Since the iphone is not able to manage todos I need RTM, but it has no sense that when I'm home using iCal I cannot edit or add new tasks.
loadupscott says:
Another vote here.
Right now I'm using a mashed up solution using Fluid.app and the RTM iPhone interface as a menu bar drop down. Hopefully we'll see an update soon!
Right now I'm using a mashed up solution using Fluid.app and the RTM iPhone interface as a menu bar drop down. Hopefully we'll see an update soon!
canelson says:
Count me in! +1
(closed account) says:
You can count another vote.
(closed account) says:
I have to second this. That feature is missing!
pslate24 says:
here, here.
(closed account) says:
yes, please :)
aoberoi says:
i would also LOVE this feature.
I would also be willing to develop and work on it myself, but the API for RTM is not open.
I would also be willing to develop and work on it myself, but the API for RTM is not open.
qasim says:
+100!!!
richardjn says:
+1 <--Pro User
jtg says:
+1
fork4k says:
ditto
jantanner says:
meeeeeeeeeeee, tooooo
obscuredcelery says:
same here
ronderick.henry says:
i agree and it please
peter.strom says:
Would love to have this!
metherington48 says:
me too!
dkjj says:
Excellent idea. It would fatten up The Milk from 2% to Full Cream. May we please have some RTM feedback?
daxdavis says:
+1
Mee too
Mee too
chris.neville says:
please - this is crucial for mac users!
mmurray says:
++++++
Please? I want it.
Please? I want it.
m.yellow says:
I would love that!!!
jacksoncage says:
+1
glovestudio says:
Me too :)
(closed account) says:
+1
mario.mosca says:
+1
nichole.thomason says:
anyone try this....
http://www.rememberthemilk.com/help/answers/icalendar/appleical.rtm
http://www.rememberthemilk.com/help/answers/icalendar/appleical.rtm
swinhoe says:
+1 YES !!!
plamparello says:
ditto
darrel.vaughn says:
ME Too
iliask says:
and me!
abeznes says:
+1
nick.henry says:
Sign me up
scharlow says:
yes plz
(closed account) says:
+1
pete.kyle says:
+1
donadio says:
@sofrankly:
GCalDaemon syncs your local ical calendars and/or Lightning calendars with Google calendars, but i don't see how it would be able to sync ical files with lightning or remember the milk files. Perhaps its possible to sync your remember the milk calendar in GCal with an ical calendar? I feel the items would show up as events as opposed to tasks. If you know of how to do this, please post back. Also I've found that the sync does not really work with deleted items. I always wind up having to delete items manually from both ical and google calendar.
You can sort of do this if you have set up imap email accounts with Apple Mail. Then you can create calendars on those imap accounts in ICAL, which in turn appear in an "Apple Mail to Do" folder in said account. If you use gmail and firefox's remember the milk extension, you can theoretically convert all emails with the "apple Mail to do" label into a task. However, that extension doesn't work all the time because gmail is constantly changing its code. Therefore, I use Thunderbird to drag the messages from "apple mail to do" to the activities pane, where they are converted into tasks. It's the best workaround I can come up with.
For me, this is the missing link, ability to sync tasks in Ical with those of thunderbird's lightning with those of remember the milk. My workaround is to use
GCalDaemon syncs your local ical calendars and/or Lightning calendars with Google calendars, but i don't see how it would be able to sync ical files with lightning or remember the milk files. Perhaps its possible to sync your remember the milk calendar in GCal with an ical calendar? I feel the items would show up as events as opposed to tasks. If you know of how to do this, please post back. Also I've found that the sync does not really work with deleted items. I always wind up having to delete items manually from both ical and google calendar.
You can sort of do this if you have set up imap email accounts with Apple Mail. Then you can create calendars on those imap accounts in ICAL, which in turn appear in an "Apple Mail to Do" folder in said account. If you use gmail and firefox's remember the milk extension, you can theoretically convert all emails with the "apple Mail to do" label into a task. However, that extension doesn't work all the time because gmail is constantly changing its code. Therefore, I use Thunderbird to drag the messages from "apple mail to do" to the activities pane, where they are converted into tasks. It's the best workaround I can come up with.
For me, this is the missing link, ability to sync tasks in Ical with those of thunderbird's lightning with those of remember the milk. My workaround is to use
donadio says:
the remember the milk provider extension for Thunderbird in conjunction, but this should be a hella lot easier.
julien.hurlot says:
+1, I'll buy pro account if RTM is able to sync to do list with ICAL
mattpeltz says:
+1 Please!!
bluehorns says:
+1!
ran.michal says:
+1
jr78 says:
+1 ... I'd love to have an iCal integration as well (not only subsription).
michagrandel says:
+1, same here
and yes, I'll by a pro account, if RTM will be able to sync with iCal in both ways (iCal->RTM; RTM->iCal), too.
and yes, I'll by a pro account, if RTM will be able to sync with iCal in both ways (iCal->RTM; RTM->iCal), too.
deqose says:
+1 =)
darthus says:
+1
rwl4 says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1
(closed account) says:
moo te !
sorry... I got overwhelmed by the "ical-compatible cow" effect.
>>> me too !
Am currently warming up the credit card to get RTM pro in case this feature becomes available.
sorry... I got overwhelmed by the "ical-compatible cow" effect.
>>> me too !
Am currently warming up the credit card to get RTM pro in case this feature becomes available.
travismanint says:
please! +1
tinu.cleatus says:
me too... BIG PLUS ONE !!!
sailesh says:
+1
raiko says:
Yes, please!!
(closed account) says:
I would pay for a Pro account for this functionality. Hoping RTW developers are working on this.
steven.merrill says:
+1 - This would definitely lock up my Tasks situation across Windows Mobile, iPod touch and my OS X desktop.
fheyder says:
+1
ldipenti says:
+1
2sjohnston says:
I would love this
kellygrape says:
+1
neilio says:
This would be huge for me, as it would open up the ability to sync with other application that do not currently support RTM (Things, The Hit List, Omnifocus, etc.).
Please?
Please?
akeech says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1 for sure
mototom says:
I'd go Pro for this. I love the ability to kick any bit of text in Apple Mail over to a To Do, but then that To Do is sadly trapped on my Mac.
Apple iCal To Do support is pretty limited, but if I could just get that Email --> To Do --> Web & iPhone, I'd have everything I need.
Apple iCal To Do support is pretty limited, but if I could just get that Email --> To Do --> Web & iPhone, I'd have everything I need.
ciaran.rogers says:
Id also go pro to do this along with 5 other mac users at my org
(closed account) says:
I'd go pro for 2 way ical sync too.
milkiglo says:
Hiya RTMers,
I am going to take an opposing view here.
I used to sync tasks between iCal and my palm pilot and it was a HEADACHE. Sorry for the caps but I have painful memories. So many duplicated tasks. So much dropped information because the iCal task manager was so limited! Really-compare it to RTM. The worst part about it was trying to bring my cal headings inline with my task headings. You know, David Allen (GTD baby!) draws a clean line between tasks and calendar items-they're just different animals.
You all want to email tasks. I understand. YOU CAN. Look in your RTM settings and there is a tab called something like 'Info' and there you will find an email address called something like: '[email protected]'
Go into your Address Book app, mac users, and add that email to your contact card.
Now you are free to email your tasks till the cows come home with the milk. Just compose your emails in Mail app, type your own name in the 'To' field and send that task straight to your RTM inbox. -Be sure to get the proper address, for me it is a nobrainer as I type my rtm profile name and it is there in three keystrokes.
So, please, lets all forget about iCal tasks. Apple did-why do you think they left it out of the iPhone? Honestly, there should have been a tasks app from the start. But Apple realized that there are better solutions out there for tasks than what iCal tasks (yuck!) could do.
And Hooray for RTM for doing it. No really. After a year of task management on a palm and iCal I am never, never, going back to iCal tasks. Bottom line-Apple has moved on, you should move on too.
I am going to take an opposing view here.
I used to sync tasks between iCal and my palm pilot and it was a HEADACHE. Sorry for the caps but I have painful memories. So many duplicated tasks. So much dropped information because the iCal task manager was so limited! Really-compare it to RTM. The worst part about it was trying to bring my cal headings inline with my task headings. You know, David Allen (GTD baby!) draws a clean line between tasks and calendar items-they're just different animals.
You all want to email tasks. I understand. YOU CAN. Look in your RTM settings and there is a tab called something like 'Info' and there you will find an email address called something like: '[email protected]'
Go into your Address Book app, mac users, and add that email to your contact card.
Now you are free to email your tasks till the cows come home with the milk. Just compose your emails in Mail app, type your own name in the 'To' field and send that task straight to your RTM inbox. -Be sure to get the proper address, for me it is a nobrainer as I type my rtm profile name and it is there in three keystrokes.
So, please, lets all forget about iCal tasks. Apple did-why do you think they left it out of the iPhone? Honestly, there should have been a tasks app from the start. But Apple realized that there are better solutions out there for tasks than what iCal tasks (yuck!) could do.
And Hooray for RTM for doing it. No really. After a year of task management on a palm and iCal I am never, never, going back to iCal tasks. Bottom line-Apple has moved on, you should move on too.
colleenwalsh02 says:
agreed!
Krissy, I very much applaud your arrival here on these boards and think it bodes well for RTM as a product that they have someone like you here. I've been a RTM user since launch, and I think it's an invaluable service.
Without sounding too cranky, could I ask you to clarify something, please? This thread began on 2/6/07, over _two years_ ago, and you are just now adding this idea to the list for the developers to look at. Can I possibly have that right?
Without sounding too cranky, could I ask you to clarify something, please? This thread began on 2/6/07, over _two years_ ago, and you are just now adding this idea to the list for the developers to look at. Can I possibly have that right?
s.sherriff says:
I would love two way syncing with ical too
makkura says:
Consider me a plus +1. Finding it kinda ridiculous this feature isn't available by someone else yet.
thetechninja says:
+1
mockelvis says:
Yes, RTM / iCal sync would be excellent.
jamiel says:
+1
valleyiah says:
Yes, RTM / iCal sync would be excellent.
And it should be able to open a small calendar with a week in one view.(like a timetable).
And it should be able to open a small calendar with a week in one view.(like a timetable).
8collins says:
Yes, iCal sync with RTM please!
nfitzhugh says:
+1
slugglife says:
+1
julian.oes says:
would be good!
denisewithers says:
I'd love better Mac integration too - sync with ToDo!
julien.fortin says:
+1
chrillo.at says:
+1
zwise22 says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1 !
twinstead says:
+1
danieleio says:
+1 please!
triblondon says:
Can I add (yet) another vote for this. I don't want it for ical itself, but because ical hooks into other areas of OS X - specifically, dashboard widgets. The dashboard widgets that integrate with iCal are far better than those that have been developed for RTM directly. Check out RememberTheMoof vs DoBeDo. No comparison - I want to use DoBeDo and have those tasks sync up with my RTM account.
johnohara says:
+1
raorou2 says:
+1
ariannagrumbine says:
This would be SO helpful! Please add this feature!
emetcalfe says:
+1
themorgantown says:
+20
(closed account) says:
+1
nfederici says:
me too.
florian.roth says:
that would be awesome!!
xxdesmus says:
+1 ...this would be amazing.
hajush says:
I'm not using this app until this is available... please support this!
kabir.shah says:
+1
definitely needed
definitely needed
urke.leshem says:
+1
(closed account) says:
This would be wonderful!!
lovelaughterlife says:
+1!!
(closed account) says:
This would make me go pro and use 100% RTM for task managing!
nathanielks says:
Can I do +12043157492859084103287512?
If so: +12043157492859084103287512?
else: +1
If so: +12043157492859084103287512?
else: +1
nejnas says:
+1, would be great for mac users.
dangribbin says:
absolutely. this is an amazing idea. +1
lytnngseed says:
+1
suarezja says:
+1
resocut says:
another one
(closed account) says:
+1
tommy_b says:
+1 here as well.
I just want to point out something somebody mentioned like 2 yrs ago on this thread about his nightmare sync issues with Palm. I had the same problems - I couldn't stand it so I dumped Palm and got a Crackberry with some $20 add-on app that did the job just fine, I would have paid $100 after the messes Palm made with my calendars and to dos.
But the reason that sucked so much was because it was two different calendaring formats trying their best to talk to each other and failing most of the time. That's why standards, like calDAV which is how iCal and GCal and Mobileme sync (not perfectly but a million times better than iCal hooking up to a Palm years ago) are so important and RTM is already getting there with subscription to lists via iCal standard file protocols. Standards allow for more consumer choice as you don't get forced into outfitting yourself only with, say, oh Microsoft products, because they use proprietary format for something rather than a standard. When configured carefully - sync is pretty delicate and I think deserves it's own huge industry of consultants so people wouldn't have so many troubles by letting pros set it up - you'll likely experience a very small number of incidents related to a sync gone bad. I've been using GCal and syncing over calDAV to my iCal apps on three different Macs for just about a year now and there hasn't been one single instance of data loss. And I attribute that the use of the standards as well as my anal-retentive set up to ensure nothing would fail.
IN THE MEANTIME, those seeking a work around for true bidirectional To Do sync across any device that is iCalendar standard based should try... yes, I'm not kidding... the new Yahoo beta calendar. It works like a charm. If you have a to do list already, export it to an .ics file, upload it into Yahoo Calendar, and sync away. It's reliable. It works. I haven't lost any data.
I use GCal for my calendar syncing all across my machines, but they dropped the ball and there's no offline intergrated Task List, they already had calDAV sync set up, why they couldn't make their Task List a part of that is beyond me. And I need my calendars and to do's offline, it's a must, in a dedicated calendar (not an Adobe Air app or Google Gears iteration).
So Yahoo of all things actually saved the day - the whole calendar project is actually looking pretty solid. It's not targeted at business users so it's not filled with feature bloat like Gcal. They've done good work.
I just want to point out something somebody mentioned like 2 yrs ago on this thread about his nightmare sync issues with Palm. I had the same problems - I couldn't stand it so I dumped Palm and got a Crackberry with some $20 add-on app that did the job just fine, I would have paid $100 after the messes Palm made with my calendars and to dos.
But the reason that sucked so much was because it was two different calendaring formats trying their best to talk to each other and failing most of the time. That's why standards, like calDAV which is how iCal and GCal and Mobileme sync (not perfectly but a million times better than iCal hooking up to a Palm years ago) are so important and RTM is already getting there with subscription to lists via iCal standard file protocols. Standards allow for more consumer choice as you don't get forced into outfitting yourself only with, say, oh Microsoft products, because they use proprietary format for something rather than a standard. When configured carefully - sync is pretty delicate and I think deserves it's own huge industry of consultants so people wouldn't have so many troubles by letting pros set it up - you'll likely experience a very small number of incidents related to a sync gone bad. I've been using GCal and syncing over calDAV to my iCal apps on three different Macs for just about a year now and there hasn't been one single instance of data loss. And I attribute that the use of the standards as well as my anal-retentive set up to ensure nothing would fail.
IN THE MEANTIME, those seeking a work around for true bidirectional To Do sync across any device that is iCalendar standard based should try... yes, I'm not kidding... the new Yahoo beta calendar. It works like a charm. If you have a to do list already, export it to an .ics file, upload it into Yahoo Calendar, and sync away. It's reliable. It works. I haven't lost any data.
I use GCal for my calendar syncing all across my machines, but they dropped the ball and there's no offline intergrated Task List, they already had calDAV sync set up, why they couldn't make their Task List a part of that is beyond me. And I need my calendars and to do's offline, it's a must, in a dedicated calendar (not an Adobe Air app or Google Gears iteration).
So Yahoo of all things actually saved the day - the whole calendar project is actually looking pretty solid. It's not targeted at business users so it's not filled with feature bloat like Gcal. They've done good work.
cweyant says:
+1
geekdaddy says:
+1 (AND Pro Willingness!)
Also I'd LOVE to be able to export my iCal Tasks to RTM in some fashion. I currently use Appigo ToDo with iCal and am considering making a move to RTM so that it....works better with both my iPhone and the ability to email tasks to myself.
Also I'd LOVE to be able to export my iCal Tasks to RTM in some fashion. I currently use Appigo ToDo with iCal and am considering making a move to RTM so that it....works better with both my iPhone and the ability to email tasks to myself.
geekdaddy says:
Ah, my personal issue is now RESOLVED. As per above, I use Appigo ToDo....so I just went used the Switch Services option to change to RTM and I chose to Keep my existing tasks so that these were uploaded to RTM. Of course, I had to go Pro but it is worth it based on what I want to do!
http://www.appigo.com/appigo-sync/faqs/switching/switching-services
http://www.appigo.com/appigo-sync/faqs/switching/switching-services
j.d.soberg says:
hear hear
(closed account) says:
I want this too, it's the must-have function which still missing.
many.garcia says:
i want this too!!! did anybody found a way for updating RTM tasks from ical??
(closed account) says:
Yes please.. I will +340594574950445945 this :)
everardo.mancilla says:
+1
m.sparakowski says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1 !!!!!!
I so want this too!
I so want this too!
dir.mando says:
+1 (Give us iCal todo-sync.)
cfaber says:
I just signed up for RTM, thinking it could do this, only to find out it can't. I want to be able to have two way sycn, iCal to do list -- RTM -- Android.
It's just crazy, with so much demand for this type of thing out there, that RTM isn't doing it. :(
It's just crazy, with so much demand for this type of thing out there, that RTM isn't doing it. :(
jonas.probst says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+1
That's about 120 +1's and 3 years. Remember way back when this thread was just a little newborn comment. So full of life!
That's about 120 +1's and 3 years. Remember way back when this thread was just a little newborn comment. So full of life!
meschultz1113 says:
all i can say, is yes please!
nordlys says:
Pretty please!
mblaya says:
+1
ekarmouta says:
+1
mborsalino says:
+1
rama.guttula says:
+1
idaelisco says:
+1
(closed account) says:
+2
prometheusunbound says:
++
Will upgrade to Pro if this comes about...
Will upgrade to Pro if this comes about...
marcin.jekot says:
++
me three
me three
dbrown says:
+1 using the import icalendar feed is a nightmare
dbrown says:
...and being able to use Apple Mail to create tasks would be so useful.
nboychuk says:
+1
ivs.zgz says:
+1
chrismmiller says:
+1
philwearne says:
+1 (for what its worth!)
alyzak says:
+1'000,000 votes here!
hshahrokni says:
+1
What a wonderful Christmas gift it would make from RTM to the community!
What a wonderful Christmas gift it would make from RTM to the community!
(closed account) says:
another vote here, would seriously want this to happen - yesterday.
willray says:
Another vote! and, any kind of update from developers would be very helpful re: consumers considering moving to pro.
Thanks! Love this product.
Thanks! Love this product.
willray says:
In the meantime, here's an free app called taskSync that was just posted on LIfehacker that provides a solution to this whole problem.
It uses a preference pane app that does configurable syncs between RTM and sync task lists, it works in real time, and is 2-way. Very adaptable to needs.
http://bitbuiltsoftware.com/
The only caveat -- Snow Leopard 10.6 only.
It uses a preference pane app that does configurable syncs between RTM and sync task lists, it works in real time, and is 2-way. Very adaptable to needs.
http://bitbuiltsoftware.com/
The only caveat -- Snow Leopard 10.6 only.
jason.lemieux says:
Has anyone had luck w/ tasksync yet? I can't really get it to work, even under 10.6. It seems like it's real close to working but the developer hasn't updated it in a while...
simeda.takasi says:
Nothing appears in "Sync lists" for 4 weeks. Under 10.6.6.
ronert.obst says:
+1
joskarp says:
+1
brookwarner says:
+1
mtchetch says:
+2
jaroslavka says:
+1
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